Perhaps the above background helps? You opened in part with

being politically moderate is easily misunderstood

and I am not sure that I understand the point you're trying to make. Or perhaps, I can hazard a guess where you're coming from but the number of harmful and false narratives this dialogue opens us up to is very concerning to me.

I really want to understand, because your position is likely less problematic toward oppressed peoples than I imagine it to be. I want to repeat my earlier question: Is it “hate speech” to set your distance from a toxically individualistic political arena dominated by White male bigots?

I also wonder whether we may have some definitions crossed, as this didn't really make sense to me-

This is not a matter of signalling respectability as a political effort to decrease oppression

#respectability-politics as I understand it is not a political effort to decrease oppression, quite the opposite. It is a collection of oppressions visited upon marginalised people that turns them into the problem for expressing themselves or speaking out against the harms they experience. Frequently it fuels DARVO and ensures that the dominant oppressive structures of our society are maintained (Patriarchy, White Supremacy & Capitalism).

• https://www.verywellmind.com/playing-the-game-of-respectability-politics-5215862
• https://www.theroot.com/the-definition-danger-and-disease-of-respectability-po-1790854699
• https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/the-rise-of-respectability-politics/

@andrestaltz I appreciate this pause for reflection and I hope that my obviously compromised sense of safety can be helpful in opening up to some of these difficult issues.

I confess I am still troubled by the perspectives being brought into the dialogue about fascism.

I don't disagree with the 3rd of these linked posts- I think most internal changes in people happen relationally and that this is where we can have our deepest impact. Perhaps it would be useful to know the data I have on this: I have clocked 188 hours of desk time in conversation attempting to resolve these issues. Usually desk time is 1/2 - 2/3 of the time I spend on governance, strategy & management work; but this particular work was disproportionally intrusive into messaging apps on my phone. Still, let's be conservative and call it ~276 hours spent in conversation, mostly doing emotional labour to the benefit of White men's ignorance. And this does not even begin to account for the brain-space consumed by fretting at how to calmly address unconscious bias; or loss of focus, chronic stress and anxiety, lost sleep, waking up with heart palpitations every morning for months, digestive complaints, fatigue and all the other second-order effects that come from feeling a need to assert your right to exist in a hostile environment that does not want to care.

I am confident those conversations took up a lot of Eric's time as well, and the time of many of HOLO's employees. There were related conflicts going on within the organisation that have also consumed time and money. Time spent not building better futures. Slight sidenote, but if we want to have a dialogue about the real quantifiable impacts of tolerating hate speech and bigotry in communities, then let's have HOLO's employees release their timesheet data on this too. How much time and money have they spent suppressing conflict in efforts to include Moritz & those who enable him?

You should also know that I first asked Holochain's community manager for support in addressing Moritz' beliefs with him at DWeb Camp '22. I was told that the idea "felt manipulative", and asked to reflect that perhaps I should have more empathy for others who could be confronted by my physical appearance. I spent the week camped in the same bungalow as somebody I knew to be opposed to my existence. I then had the confidence of a private conversation broken, was lovebombed and cornered into silence and compliance in the back of a car leaving camp. Later in attempting to resolve the betrayal with the community manager I was asked to hold space for his hurt after explicity stating that I did not have the capacity to do so. He has never been mandated unconscious bias / sensitivity training as I requested with HOLO- they simply didn't renew his contract to save face. He remains unreformed and I hear reports of him continuing to cause damage in neighbouring communities. I am only choosing to keep his name out of it due to Art's attempts to scapegoat him. His bromances were an integral part of upholding Holochain's systems of exclusion and oppression. To this day, all has ever said to me about it is that "he just loves Moritz".

In any case, I hope these short summaries help to illustrate how many attempts at generative interventions had preceded my earlier XTwitter frustrations.

Of course, I did not know then what we know now. If I'd have seen evidence that Moritz was in bed with White Nationalists and hate groups I would never have attempted to engage him in dialogue at all. Perhaps nobody is ever beyond helping, but I think it's a bit of an imposition to expect oppressed peoples to be in warm and amicable dialogue with those who oppress them.

Hey, thanks for writing. I guess the point is that nouns are 'sticky'. Holochain is embracing fascism- it's an action, a process in motion, a thing that has happened in the past through a thousand tiny cuts and that continues to happen now. To say that Holochain is fascist to me would be where the reactionary politics and finger-pointing starts, where unfair blame lies, where we devolve into "us" and "them". It would also be untrue, and a crude label to apply to a socially complex and dynamic community of practise in which I have met many people who's actions are (from my perspective) generative and positive for the world.

So I genuinely ask that we deepen relationships, in order to weed from our collective psyche the foul roots of our comforts, our toxic positivity, our saviourism, our apologism for hate that does not affect us, our abandonment of the oppressed, and other unconscious biases and entitlements that conspire to give rise to #genocide.

Yes, those conversations will probably have the effect of recentering some who are vulnerable to fascist thought back into their singular reality. But we are mostly an amalgam of the people we spend the most time with, and I should think the idea of reformation near the core of a group wholly devoted to a hateful cause be laughable. At least those their propaganda harms will be able to identify them, set boundaries, keep distance. The alternative is for things to continue as they have been- background fascism influencing events in secret, bigots being empowered, and oppressed people being silently harmed and erased without accountability.

(Related reading: The Alt-Right and Global Information Warfare)

I take your point that alarm does not lead to wellbeing. Maybe it can lead there indirectly if we are able to make our way through the fear. If not, we are stuck in a hostile world behind our individual protective measures. In a world in which fascism is on the rise I think we should all be vigilant.

Thankyou for mentioning Gaza in this reply. We could say similar for Ukraine or Sudan or any of the other places that the West fleetingly cares about. (I'm sharing that discontent intentionally, as channelled via a Ukrainian friend who feels abandoned by most of their social circles now that media attention and leftist virtue signalling have moved on.)

Emotional care for anybody experiencing the impacts of genocide is important work, and I believe these events reinforce the truth that resisting fascism and colonialism really does require being in #solidarity with all oppressed peoples. The ignition point for all of this was Islamophobia being tolerated. Tolerating anti-trans hate speech is just a continuation of the same decision.

Zuerst kamen sie...

If reactionary politics have made the word 'fascist' overused and problematic, then how are we to respond when the actual fascists enter our spaces?

So, I'll repeat what I said to Eric Harris-Braun before we parted ways:

If we cannot have the courage or discernment to use the label 'fascist' for those who participate in hate speech and are directly connected to hate groups and violent radicals, then we have no hope of creating the better worlds we all know are possible.

When I made this choice of hashtag in publishing to the fediverse I added that

My intention in making it a verb and an alarm signal is that writing can be socially and linguistically adaptive as the situation unfolds.

Yes, the word 'fascist' causes alarm. Maybe @Spencer is right and its use will just lead to wars. Well, I am already involved in an organised war against my right to exist. I did not ask to be.

It seems in the OP I omitted evidence tying Moritz' podcasting partnership with Brett Veinotte to "The Free State Project", a libertarian political plot to take voting power in New Hampshire. Looks like Trump is going to win the New Hampshire primary. Looks like these people have aspirations to secession and covet the 'uncancelability' of #decentralization. Cool and normal.

Don't we think some alarm is warranted, if hate groups and individuals who participate in genocidal propaganda are being empowered with private, unstoppable and easily deployable communications tech to secretly organise and amplify their power?

Wanted to redirect @moid's point here, because there are some important & valid definitional issues at play. Ergo, #defining-fascism.

I find it easy to agree with claims made by other folks that fascism is actually pretty straightforward to define and diagnose. If you compare established definitions the themes and overlap should be obvious. Personally I think the perceived complexity of the task largely depends on whether your inquiry is rooted in a desire to protect those facing oppression from harm, or a fear of open conflict.

"How do you define fascist?"

They act in ways similar to how other fascists act. They act in ways that promote nationalism, authoritarianism, racism, sexism, bigotry, antisemitism, and/or support people and organizations that do the same. Those are fascists.

The fact that people are so worried about how to define fascists is because they want to know exactly how much of all of that behavior they can get away with before getting banned. So you start with "No Fascists Allowed". Tell them right up front NONE of that shit is allowed. If they're arguing about how you should allow a little of it, that's because they want to do a whole lot of it, so you just skip to the end and ban them.

No Fascists Allowed mens you don't have to allow fascists a platform to spread their garbage. You don't have to wait until they break a rule in your particular space. If you figure out they're a J6er or a Qanon or whatever just straight up ban them, even if they've never been caught doing shit in your space - because they will. Eventually. And you probably won't hear about it or see it until after they've already gotten a bunch of their friends into the space and already driven out a bunch of marginalized people.

Of course I could predict that use of the word would be painted as reactionary. Truth is, it took me many months to come to such a discernment. The anchor page in my knowledgebase is still titled "Holochain and Supremacism"- since that is a less inflammatory word, and these issues first began to affect me specifically as patriarchal / gendered violence. I am wary of extending harms that I experience as a trans person to other marginalised identities; though many are linked (eg. any LGBTQ+ gender expression threatens White racial hegemony).

But, now we have this body of evidence. I'll leave it to others to go through these lists of fascist ideologies and characteristics and tick off those they see in the above content. Maybe we could make it like a game of bingo. "How many times did you see 'dehumanization and scapegoating of marginalized or oppressed groups'?"

Harmful beliefs tend to come in clusters. Plenty of Moritz' close associates and the people he empowers are calling to "restore European civilization to the great path of our people" or denying the holocaust and saying that "Hitler had some good points". Moritz is out there broadcasting that all trans people are perverts and paedophiles. Call a spade a spade.

The Shire Free Church is attached to a whole vision for a new Shire Society, with its own declaration of rights:

Shire Society Declaration

WE, THE UNDERSIGNED witnesses to the lesson of history — that no form of political governance may be relied upon to secure the individual rights of life, liberty, or property — now therefore establish and provide certain fundamental precepts measuring our conduct toward one another, and toward others:

FIRST, each individual is the exclusive proprietor of his or her own existence and all products thereof, holding no obligations except those created by consent;

SECOND, no individual or association of individuals, however constituted, has the right to initiate force against any other individual;

THIRD, each individual has the inalienable right of self-defense against the initiation of force;

FOURTH, explicit voluntary association is the only means by which binding obligations may be created, and claims based on association or relationships to which any party did not consent are empty and invalid;

FIFTH, rights are neither collective nor additive in character, and no group can possess rights in excess of those belonging to its individual members;

We hereby declare our commitment to peace, individual sovereignty, and independence, and join the Shire Society.

The immigration page contains an explicit articulation of New Hampshire as the libertarian dream destination, specifically Keene and Manchester.

While you can be in the Shire as a state of mind, it makes sense to live close to others who believe as you do. You are encouraged to immiGREAT to the Shire.

This all ties together their intentions into a pretty cohesive and well-organised political vision. From Wikipedia:

The Free State Project originated from a 2001 essay by then-Yale University student (and later lecturer at Dartmouth College) Jason Sorens. The idea behind the project is to get 20,000 libertarians to move to New Hampshire, a state with a low population where a group of that size could yield significant political influence. By 2014, about 1,500 libertarians had already moved to the state, and several "Free Staters" have been elected to the state government, including Andrew Prout of the New Hampshire House of Representatives.

Free Talk Live calls itself

Talk Radio's # 1 Pro-Liberty Show

The podcast's host Ian Freeman goes by 'Free Keene' online (possible alias of Ian Back). He is a regular attendee of Porcfest, the same festival that Brett is recorded speaking at.

I had the pleasure of speaking from the main stage at Porcfest 2022, the biggest, sold-out Porcfest ever. My speech was about the history of Free Talk Live and the FBI's obsession with the Free State Project, specifically agent Phil Christiana. Thank you to Dennis Pratt and the rest of the Porcfest crew for having me back!

On this page there are also some hints at internal conflict within the Free State Project:

Freeman got booted from the FSP for stating that their should be no age of consent as enforced by the fedguv.

False. I was kicked out of their events for one year because of my libertarian opinions on age of consent. I resigned from the FSP as a result. However, I don't hold a grudge and practice forgiveness. So, all is now well.

Ian has many relationships within The Free State Project network:

Last week I was honored to return as a guest on “Liberty Conspiracy” with Gardner Goldsmith, which also featured Carla Gericke from The Free State Project. Here’s the video archive.

He has been sentenced to 8 years in prison for Bitcoin scams.

Last month, one of the victims described herself as a lonely widow who got scammed by a man she met on a dating site. At his instruction, she sent $300,000 to Freeman, wiping out her life’s savings.

Sheriff David Hathaway of Santa Cruz County, Arizona, described Freeman as an “advocate for freedom and the American dream” and “promoting free trade capitalism and individual liberty.”

See The Crypto Six for Ian's portrayal of events:

In the early morning hours of Tuesday, Mar. 16, 2021, federal agents, local law enforcement, and half a dozen other 3-letter agencies kicked in the doors at Free Talk Live’s studio, the Bitcoin Embassy, and the Shire Free Church, among other places arresting 6 individuals and confiscating several Bitcoin vending machines, computers, and other personal items over the bastardly crime of selling crypto without a government permission slip.

According to Wikipedia, Porcfest (or "The Porcupine Freedom Festival") is:

an event held annually every June since 2004 in the U.S. state of New Hampshire. The festival is the main event held by the Free State Project, a libertarian organization that advocates for the relocation of libertarians to New Hampshire in order to make the state a stronghold for their movement. The festival has been described as "the libertarian version of Burning Man" and "the largest gathering of libertarians in the world". The festival on average hosts approximately 1,500 attendees.

Brett Veinotte, Free Talk Live & The Free State Project

Brett talks about his story and reasons for starting the podcast in conversation with Joel Bein, who is also a long-time fan of the podcast (recording) (transcript). Joel appears to be an Internal Family Systems therapist who has created his own intensive repatterning therapy process:

The 1-1 HL experience is most certaintly one of safety, warmth, and compassion. But it is not therapy. With a largely “left-brained” process, we target core root problems and remove those problems, allowing for permanent healing and freedom.

We do integrate the framework that one’s mind and psyche is a system of parts, borrowed from Internal Family Systems therapy (IFS).

You’ll meet with Joel 1-hour a week for 12 weeks. Each week your life will change forever.

Expect to invest up $5K-$10k. Because we believe the ROI will be incalculable, you can also expect your future self will overflow with gratitude.

Brett also has a livestream online called "Understanding Conspiracy" (live at porcfest) (audio) (transcript):

Brett Veinotte joined the Renegade Variety Hour live at porcfest to discuss conspiracy, public school, and a number of different topics.

In an interview with him and Andy Wile, the intro says:

He also worked as writing consultant to a London School of Economics graduate student, advising on foreign policy issues and Austrian School Economics.

There are no pages for Andy Wile that I could find, but he is cached in DuckDuckGo SEO metadata as:

Mr. Anthony Wile is the Founder of Free-Market News Network. He is the Co-Founder and also served as the Director & Chief Executive Officer at PharmaCielo.

There is a trademark filing in the state of Florida which describes FMNN as "a community of independent thinkers" offering "online services featuring providing monthly research reports, special interest news bulletins and books".

On the Patreon page for School Sucks there is an endorsement in the screenshotted testimonials linking Brett to the 'Free Talk Live' Podcast.

Cool show man I already knew about you through FTL (freetalklive.com) so was pleasantly surprised to see you at the top of the list of the educational podcasts keep it up

I am leaving this derailleur aside, and hope that the main thread here can instead be a place for discussing the evidence at hand.

@andrestaltz I hope this set of links affords us a stable starting place.

I think we should be clear that Moritz is contributing directly to the anti-trans moral panic via posts asserting that all trans people are perverts and paedophiles. Those are ideas that lead directly to physical violence in the real world. Such statements are fuel for the fire that gets trans folks beaten and murdered today, same as they got gay folks beaten and murdered in the '80s.

How is this not hate speech?

Your emphasis hasn't come though, but maybe we should look at some basic definitions. Most dictionaries talk about "expressing hate", "encouraging violence", "denigrating a person or persons" etc. Where am I doing that, exactly? It hardly seems hateful to label somebody engaging in slurs and denigrating an entire demographic of people as a bigot. I don't believe wishing death to anybody is acceptable and it seems inflammatory to bring the idea into this conversation.

Isn't it my right to set a boundary, and not participate in spaces where hatemongering against me is tolerated and platformed?

It is saddening to be edging towards #respectability-politics so soon in this conversation. Notice how I am expected to be a #model-minority and perfectly adherent to calm and amicable dialogue, even when engaging with bigots who use dehumanising language and rhetoric towards me. I must maintain my composure perfectly, even in the face of credible threats to my existence, or I get told I am doing hate speech. Funny how we try to flip that accusation back onto those affected. Meanwhile Moritz writes a waffling response that 'sounds warm' without addressing any of the points I made and lists trans people in the same breath as nazis. Well, with nods to the linked articles above, that is how fascists 'argue'.

https://www.verywellmind.com/playing-the-game-of-respectability-politics-5215862

As to "problematic beliefs"— we could start with those that are a direct incitement to physical violence: bigotry against trans people; including the idea that we are all child molesters.